... a friendly reminder

topic posted Wed, December 27, 2006 - 7:44 PM by 
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... to check ourselves, to step back and expand the horizons our lenses are focusing on. Let me explain:

I am not a believer in god in any way, and pretty well fit the definition of "atheist". Religion makes no sense to me; I vastly prefer the light of reason over the light of god. I think ID is a complete and total farce, and I am dismayed that a few people in positions of power consider their intolerant perspectives as somehow more correct than the general populace.

That being said, i've also a lot of friends who are believers. We think differently, they and I, but we're still close. My experiences with them, combined with a lot of the stuff I read here, make me feel the need to write the following:

Most believers, at least in my experience, don't take themselves anywhere near as seriously as we unbelievers seem to take ourselves. I'm speaking to myself as well as everyone else here -- most believers I know respond to my atheism with "oh ok, no problem as long as you don't try to force it on me", and when asked if they think i'm going to be punished for my lack of faith in god, they answer with "it's not my call, and I don't pretend to know how god thinks." Yet, so many of us nonbelievers are _convinced_ that believers generally hate us, consider us infidels, and would rather see the streets run red with our blood than interface with us.

Really -- we should get over ourselves. We're humans, first and foremost. Sometimes I think they understand this better than we do.

Regards,

John, 'nuff said

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  • Re: ... a friendly reminder

    Sat, January 13, 2007 - 9:15 AM
    What?! A vote for tolerance and not demonizing "the enemy"? Sacrilege!

    Yeah, from my point of view most believers, like most people in general, just want to live and let live. Too often we nonbelievers get pissed off by the minority of religious assholes and it's then easy to make too universal a generalization. Like a white kid in a predominantly black school who gets constantly picked on by a few black racists and then generalizes about all blacks.

    I don't have any fundamentalist friends, but the Christian friends I have are pretty tolerant.
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      Re: ... a friendly reminder

      Sun, January 21, 2007 - 11:22 AM
      Hold the phone. Tolerance and understanding aside, our fundamentalist bretheren have forsaken many humanist qualities that are integral to agnosticism / atheism. "They" have a single pipeline belief system that conveniently allows them to sanction slaughter of men women and children in a misguided war with a noun, "terror", and yet an abortion or stem cell research is morally reprehensible. Do you really believe their acceptance of your belief is genuine? Please. If tolerant is what we should be, then vigilant is what we should also be. I mean, when the highest elected official in a country claims he is guided in his decision making by a higher power it suggests fanatacism. What does that say about that officals constituency. Leading our lives in harmony is cool, but don't ever forget that as the ice cream truck music tinkles distantly this is a nation that is at least half full of, and led by very capable fanatics who believe in, among other equally phantasmagorical beliefs, "the rapture". How do we get over ourselves when we're told things like, "We don't acknowledge Halloween in our home because it is satanic." Too much information, but hey, that's cool, I guess.
      • Re: ... a friendly reminder

        Sun, January 21, 2007 - 7:00 PM
        It appears John used the term "believers," not "Christian fundamentalists."

        I would assume that "Christian fundamentalists" are who you are referring to here, as you have specified "slaughter of men women and children in a misguided war with a noun, 'terror', and yet an abortion or stem cell research is morally reprehensible" and "'the rapture'." Christian fundamentalists are the only "believers" whom I can logically attach to these specifications.

        I am a Pagan, personally, and am very much tolerant of other beliefs. I can't say ALL others, for there are many specifics (like the ones you mentioned) that I cannot, in good conscience, condone. However, I do not like your inference that ALL "believers" are intolerant assholes who participate in such atrocious behavior.

        Additionally, I agree with you on a few points. If one is tolerant, one must also be vigilant, because not all others are tolerant, and one must accept, acknowledge, and be prepared for confrontations that will inevitably ensue from that. I also agree that governing a country and claiming that one's decisions are guided by a higher power suggests not only fanaticism, but also a breach in Constitutional law.

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