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Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
University of Minnesota study of 2006: (Would you want your daughter to marry an Atheist?)
University of Minnesota researchers conducted a telephone survey of over 2,000 households in early 2006. 7 They found that:
"...Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in 'sharing their vision of American society.' Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry."
Lead researcher, Penny Edgell, noted that Atheists:
"...offer a glaring exception to the rule of increasing social tolerance over the last 30 years....It seems most Americans believe that diversity is fine, as long as every one shares a common 'core' of values that make them trustworthy—and in America, that 'core' has historically been religious....Americans believe they share more than rules and procedures with their fellow citizens—they share an understanding of right and wrong. Our findings seem to rest on a view of atheists as self-interested individuals who are not concerned with the common good'." 6,7
It would appear that Atheists have a major public relations job ahead of them.
www.religioustolerance.org/atheist5.htm
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However, you'll be glad to know this bit of info -
"The Secular Coalition for America is the new (first one ever!) Washington-based lobbying organization for atheists, humanists, freethinkers, and other nontheistic Americans. Our mission is to increase the visibility and respectability of nontheistic viewpoints in the United States and to protect and strengthen the secular character of our government as the best guarantee of freedom for all."
www.secular.org/
www.atheists.org/flash.line/ath1.htm
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"Wake Up America" Ad Campaign Runs on National Air America
FFRF Takes Message to Combat Theocracy to the Air Waves
April 3, 2006
The Freedom From Religion Foundation, a national watchdog group whose members are atheists and agnostics working to keep church and state separate, is taking its "Wake up America" message to national airwaves.
Beginning today for three months, the Foundation will run a series of paid radio advertisements (read ad transcripts here) warning of the religious right's assault on America. These are scheduled during four nationally syndicated "Air America" talkshows.
In one ad, comedian Julia Sweeney, the Saturday Night Live alum ("Adrogynous Pat") whose new play is "Letting Go of God," identifies herself as an atheist and asks others to "join me and the Freedom From Religion Foundation in waking up America to the growing dangers of theocracy." Her spot will air daily for 12 weeks during the "Al Franken Show."
Additionally, the Foundation is airing paid "voice endorsements" recorded by three Air America hosts to run daily during their programs. Janeane Garofalo, also an comedian, actress and SNL alum who co-hosts "The Majority Report," asks: "Are you tired of right-wing politicians who desperately want to impose their religious beliefs on the rest of us? I know I am! That's why I'm asking you to support the Freedom From Religion Foundation." Garafalo signs off: "Proud to be an atheist!"
Laura Flanders, RadioNation host, asks: "Are you as alarmed as I am about the religious right's assault on our secular government and private lives?"
Mike Malloy, of the Mike Malloy Show, notes: "I fully support the Freedom From Religion Foundation as it takes the lead in challenging the growing threat from the religious right in the United States."
"We have never been in greater danger of losing our secular republic,"says Foundation co-president Annie Laurie Gaylor.
"Theocrats are in charge of our two branches of government, and just gained a narrow foothold on the third--the U.S. Supreme Court. We witness daily assaults by religionists seeking to unite church and state, such as the flood of federal faith-based funding to support proselytizing religious groups." The dangers to civil liberties are demonstrated by South Dakota's religion-instigated ban on abortion and religion-led efforts to bar same-sex marriage and civil unions, Gaylor noted.
The ads invite sympathetic listeners to phone or visit ffrf.org, the Foundation's website.
www.ffrf.org/news/2006/airamerica.php
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www.au.org/site/PageServer
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Please join & become a member of these great organizations.
University of Minnesota study of 2006: (Would you want your daughter to marry an Atheist?)
University of Minnesota researchers conducted a telephone survey of over 2,000 households in early 2006. 7 They found that:
"...Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in 'sharing their vision of American society.' Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry."
Lead researcher, Penny Edgell, noted that Atheists:
"...offer a glaring exception to the rule of increasing social tolerance over the last 30 years....It seems most Americans believe that diversity is fine, as long as every one shares a common 'core' of values that make them trustworthy—and in America, that 'core' has historically been religious....Americans believe they share more than rules and procedures with their fellow citizens—they share an understanding of right and wrong. Our findings seem to rest on a view of atheists as self-interested individuals who are not concerned with the common good'." 6,7
It would appear that Atheists have a major public relations job ahead of them.
www.religioustolerance.org/atheist5.htm
---------
However, you'll be glad to know this bit of info -
"The Secular Coalition for America is the new (first one ever!) Washington-based lobbying organization for atheists, humanists, freethinkers, and other nontheistic Americans. Our mission is to increase the visibility and respectability of nontheistic viewpoints in the United States and to protect and strengthen the secular character of our government as the best guarantee of freedom for all."
www.secular.org/
www.atheists.org/flash.line/ath1.htm
--------
"Wake Up America" Ad Campaign Runs on National Air America
FFRF Takes Message to Combat Theocracy to the Air Waves
April 3, 2006
The Freedom From Religion Foundation, a national watchdog group whose members are atheists and agnostics working to keep church and state separate, is taking its "Wake up America" message to national airwaves.
Beginning today for three months, the Foundation will run a series of paid radio advertisements (read ad transcripts here) warning of the religious right's assault on America. These are scheduled during four nationally syndicated "Air America" talkshows.
In one ad, comedian Julia Sweeney, the Saturday Night Live alum ("Adrogynous Pat") whose new play is "Letting Go of God," identifies herself as an atheist and asks others to "join me and the Freedom From Religion Foundation in waking up America to the growing dangers of theocracy." Her spot will air daily for 12 weeks during the "Al Franken Show."
Additionally, the Foundation is airing paid "voice endorsements" recorded by three Air America hosts to run daily during their programs. Janeane Garofalo, also an comedian, actress and SNL alum who co-hosts "The Majority Report," asks: "Are you tired of right-wing politicians who desperately want to impose their religious beliefs on the rest of us? I know I am! That's why I'm asking you to support the Freedom From Religion Foundation." Garafalo signs off: "Proud to be an atheist!"
Laura Flanders, RadioNation host, asks: "Are you as alarmed as I am about the religious right's assault on our secular government and private lives?"
Mike Malloy, of the Mike Malloy Show, notes: "I fully support the Freedom From Religion Foundation as it takes the lead in challenging the growing threat from the religious right in the United States."
"We have never been in greater danger of losing our secular republic,"says Foundation co-president Annie Laurie Gaylor.
"Theocrats are in charge of our two branches of government, and just gained a narrow foothold on the third--the U.S. Supreme Court. We witness daily assaults by religionists seeking to unite church and state, such as the flood of federal faith-based funding to support proselytizing religious groups." The dangers to civil liberties are demonstrated by South Dakota's religion-instigated ban on abortion and religion-led efforts to bar same-sex marriage and civil unions, Gaylor noted.
The ads invite sympathetic listeners to phone or visit ffrf.org, the Foundation's website.
www.ffrf.org/news/2006/airamerica.php
---------
www.au.org/site/PageServer
---------
Please join & become a member of these great organizations.
posted by:
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Sun, April 16, 2006 - 5:38 AMTop Ten Reasons Our New Majority Whip Is Worse Than The Arab Religious Fanatics Burning Danish Embassies
1. For School Prayer and Amending the Constitution: Boehner supported a school prayer amendment to the United States Constitution in 1997 (H.J.Res. 78), 1999 (H.J.Res 66), and 2001 (H.J.Res. 52); voted to permit school prayer “during this time of struggle against the forces of international terrorism” (House Roll Call Vote 445, Nov. 15, 2001); and voted to only allow federal aid to schools that allow prayer (House Roll Call Vote 85, March 23, 1994).
2. For Forced Religion in Anti-Poverty Programs: Boehner voted to permit taxpayer-funded anti-poverty programs to require aid recipients to join in religious activities. (House Roll Call Votes 16 and 17, Feb. 4, 2004)
3. 100% Against a Woman’s Right to Choose: Boehner received a “0%” pro-choice score from NARAL Pro-Choice America in 2005.
4. For Religious Employment Discrimination: Boehner voted to permit taxpayer-funded anti-poverty programs to engage in federally-funded employment discrimination. (House Roll Call Votes 15 and 17, Feb. 4, 2004)
5. Against the Rule of Law in Ten Commandments Case: Boehner voted to prevent the Justice Department from enforcing a court order to remove a 5,000 pound Ten Commandments monument from Alabama’s state supreme court. (House Roll Call Vote 419, July 23, 2003)
6. Against Common-Sense Environmental Safeguards: Boehner voted for oil drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (House Roll Call Vote 122, April 20, 2005); voted to gut the Endangered Species Act (House Roll Call Vote 506, September 29, 2005); and voted to weaken the National Environmental Policy Act (House Roll Call Vote 242, June 15, 2004).
7. For More Religious Employment Discrimination: Boehner voted to permit taxpayer-funded job training programs to engage in religious discrimination when hiring and firing employees with federal funds. (House Roll Call Vote 46, March 2, 2005)
8. Against Confronting Proselytizing at the Air Force Academy: Boehner voted against an amendment to squarely address religious coercion and proselytizing at the United States Air Force Academy in Colorado. The amendment criticized “coercive and abusive religious proselytizing” of cadets at the Academy while observing that “expression of personal religious faith is welcome” throughout the military. (House Roll Call Vote 283, June 20, 2005)
9. Led the Effort to Inject Religious Employment Discrimination into Head Start: Boehner added a controversial amendment in September to a previously bipartisan School Readiness Act which would “allow federally funded early-child-care providers to discriminate on religious grounds,” according to The Forward. The Forward notes, “The federal government transfers about $6.7 billion annually to 19,000 Head Start providers in 50 states, three territories and the District of Columbia.” Jewish groups opposed to the measure, according to The Forward, include the “Anti-Defamation League, the Union for Reform Judaism, the American Jewish Congress, the American Jewish Committee and the National Council of Jewish Women.”
10. Pushed Ohio Schools to Embrace “Intelligent Design:” People For the American Way reports that Rep. Boehner and fellow Ohio Republican Rep. Steve Chabot wrote to the Ohio school board claiming that legislative language required that references to “Intelligent Design” be included in Ohio’s science standards. In fact, such language was removed from the relevant education bill before it became final.
www.godlessamericans.org/ -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Tue, April 18, 2006 - 10:28 AMThis Date in History: Discrimination Against Atheists:
"February 08, 1964: Congress debated an amendment to the Civil Rights Act of 1963 which would have removed the protection of prohibitions against religious discrimination from atheists. Proposed by Ohio Republican John Ashbrook, the amendment read: "...it shall not be an unlawful employment practice for an employer to refuse to hire and employ any person because of said persons' atheistic practices and beliefs." The amendment was passed by the House of Representatives, 137-98, but it failed to pass the Senate."
atheism.about.com/b/a/062477.htm
Psalm 14:1 (NIV) "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no god.' they are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none that does good."
History of discrimination against Atheists -
"Throughout history, atheists have been faced with discrimination. This discrimination has taken many forms, ranging from the less severe forms of discrimination such as receiving dirty looks, to the most severe form of discrimination, persecution. This paper will investigate the beginnings of discrimination against atheists and its impact on atheism. It will then explore some of the most famous accounts of persecutions against atheists. Next, it will discuss blasphemy laws. In addition, this paper will show how discrimination against atheists continues today.
"What is an atheist? An atheist is a person who does not believe in the existence of a god, i.e., in the existence of a supernatural being. Why doesn't the atheist believe in a god? Quite simply, because belief in a god is unreasonable. Can the atheist prove that a god does not exist? The atheist need not "prove" the nonexistence of a god, just as one who does not believe in magic elves, fairies, and gremlins does not have to prove their nonexistence. A person who asserts the existence of something assumes the burden of proof. The theist, or god-believer, asserts the existence of a god and must prove the claim. If the theist fails in this task, reasonable people will reject the belief as groundless. Atheists do not believe in a god because there is no reason they should" (Smith 62-3)."
www.atheist-community.org/libra...ad.php
"Absense of evidence *IS* evidence of absense" -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Tue, April 25, 2006 - 10:28 AMWhy does Atheism piss off Agnostics?
The presence of God is an extraordinary claim that needs extraordinary evidence, and it is thus a rational and widely excepted line of reasoning to conclude that such a god does not exist--in other words, atheism is the logical, natural position. There is a mass of data that refutes utterly the scriptural version regarding the age of the earth, the universe and the creation theory. Since this is shown to be incorrect and cannot be believed why should the rest be given any credence? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. After several millenia theists have turned up NONE.
One of the strongest arguments for atheism is in fact, the Bible.
Agnosticism *IS* a fallacy? While it parades as a "moderate" option which is most "reasonable", it is little more than an example of the cult of compromise. It's not because a debate is raging from both sides of an issue that both must be wrong. Or as Richard Dawkins eloquently writes :
"I think it's important to realize that when two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong."
~ Richard Dawkins'
If we examine the agnostic premise, we find that it is quite unreasonable. Agnosticism is based on the notion that we can have no knowledge on the god question. But for this to be true, the agnostic must know all possible arguments of atheism and theism, since he discards them all out of hand. If any single argument is valid, then agnosticism must crumble. Many such arguments are available in the atheist literature, and it is disingenuous to deny them.
Furthermore, the lack of knowledge inherent in agnosticism is self-contradictory. If we know nothing about the god-concept, then we cannot claim it exists, or discuss it rationally.
If we claim not to know anything about the concept, then we still know something about it : that it is beyond human understanding, and rational discussion. Therefore agnosticism is contradictory, and must inevitably lead to strong-atheism.
Furthermore, agnosticism must be self-contradictory, as identity is necessary for anything to exist, and there is no such thing as an undefined object. Whatever exists in reality has attributes. If we admit that we have no knowledge about the god-concept, including how to define it, then it cannot exist. Thus assuming agnosticism is true leads to a contradiction.
Agnostics have to answer the following question, if their position is to make any sense at all :
How can you presume that "god" has some possible meaning if you have no knowledge about "god" ?
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"A lack of clear, unambiguous definitions for religious terms is responsible for a great deal of confusion and hatred. It makes dialog between Agnostics and Theists very difficult."
I do NOT subscribe to the 'weak' or 'strong' nor the 'positive' nor 'negative' versions of Atheism. I consider myself Atheist for the most basic definition, 'a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods', as if to imply, 'without supportive evidence to back up the theist claims'.
Theist means, 'Belief in the existence of a god or gods'. - dictionary.reference.com/search
Atheist is the opposite of theist & may best be defined as, 'a lack of belief'
Agnostic is best defined as, 'noncommittal' - dictionary.reference.com/search
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Tue, April 25, 2006 - 12:24 PMWow, you just made an argument that the agnostic, by failing to take a position is contradicting himself. Now I want a libertarian justification of fascism on my desk by 2:30. -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Fri, May 5, 2006 - 12:20 PMDon't miss the Freedom From Religion Foundation's second radio broadcast, Freethought Radio, out of Madison, Wis., which airs tomorrow morning!
Listeners can wake up Saturdays to Freethought Radio from 8 - 9 a.m. on 92.1 FM, "The Mic, Madison's Progressive Talk," in Madison (the local "Air America" station). The show is streamed live at themic921.com for those outside Madison.
Shows will be available at the Foundation's website to hear at listener convenience at: ffrf.org/radio. (The second show will be up at the website by Tuesday, May 9.) Foundation members who can listen to podcasts may subscribe to a podcasting service at: ffrf.org/radio/podcast.
Freethought Radio's second show features an interview with poet, author, journalist and feminist activist Robin Morgan ("Sisterhood Is Powerful"), an atheist whose book "Fighting Words," is a counter to the religious right, and will be published later this year. Her novel, "The Burning Times," came out in March and is based on the true case of the first woman put to death as a witch by the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland. Robin Morgan was named "Freethought Heroine 2005" by the Foundation.
Co-hosts Dan Barker and Annie Laurie Gaylor, who are co-presidents of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, introduce several segments on the second show: Theocracy Watch, Freethinkers Almanac, and Pagan Pulpit. The show includes commentary on the National Day of Prayer violations.
Listeners may call in comments or questions at the Progressive Hotline, 608/663-7291.
"We have high hopes that broadcasting a show with a positive take on freethought and the separation of church and state can open minds and dispel the negative images toward both concepts," said Gaylor.
"We not only want to represent the views of the nation's secular population but 'preach to the converted'--reach out, inform, educate and attract the general public," said Barker. "Isn't it time for an alternative to religion on the public airwaves?"
The Foundation plans to "syndicate" the show on other Air America stations as finances permit.
ffrf.org/news/2006/radio2.php -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Sat, May 13, 2006 - 6:36 PMI sent a few e-mails out recently on this issue to see what others thought about the proper definition of 'atheist'. I'll share it here, I trust that many here in tribe or elsewhere would want to read it.
"The AAI (Atheist Alliance International) agrees with you on the definition of atheism. In 2003, we assigned your issue to a committee, which gave the definition of atheism, "Absence of belief in the existence of any gods." The committee was to have notified dictionary editors and publishers of this. We feel that, as the world's largest atheist organization, we should hold some sway. Many dictionaries today say that atheists "deny the existence of God," which assumes there is a god to deny the existence of. As a mostly-volunteer group, we have not yet gotten the word to all of the dictionaries. "
I hope you will join the AAI and help us in our quest.
Best regards,
Bobbie Kirkhart
President
Atheist Alliance International
www.Atheistalliance.org -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Tue, May 23, 2006 - 6:34 AMDoes GOD really exist ?
"... The "evidentialist challenge" is the gauntlet thrown down by atheist writers such as Antony Flew, Norwood Russell Hanson, and Michael Scriven.[1] They argue that in debates over the existence of God, the burden of proof should fall on the theist. They contend that if theists are unable to provide cogent arguments for theism, i.e. arguments showing that it is at least more probable than not that God exists, then atheism wins by default. It follows that atheists are under no obligation to argue for the nonexistence of God; their only task is to show that theistic arguments fail.
A sound argument for the nonexistence of a god is possible, if the concept of "God" in question is factually meaningful. I think this conclusion is one which even many theists should be willing to accept. After all, the mere possibility of a sound argument for the nonexistence of a god is logically compatible with theism; what theism requires is that there actually are no sound arguments for the nonexistence of God.
1. One can prove with certainty that an entity does not exist if (a) the concept of that entity is incoherent, or (b) the existence of that entity is logically incompatible with obviously present states of affairs.
2. One can be rationally justified in claiming that an entity does not exist without being certain that it does not exist. This justification comes from (a) the improbability that that entity exists given various states of affairs, and/or (b) the principle of parsimony coupled with a lack of evidence for the existence of that entity.
Having failed to prove that atheism is illogical, and having failed to back up any of his other assertions about why theism must be true, Hanegraaff's article fails to show that atheism is not rationally justifiable, and, indeed, allows theism as a whole to fall prey to the principle of parsimony."
www.infidels.org/library/m...nerny.html
In other words, 'absence of evidence *IS* evidence of absence'.
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Tue, May 23, 2006 - 4:21 PM"In other words, 'absence of evidence *IS* evidence of absence'. "
Uh, no, no matter how many times you repeat that fallacy, or how many times you paste the exact same post in multiple tribes. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Tue, May 23, 2006 - 4:32 PMIs a Sound Argument for the Nonexistence of a God Even Possible?
www.infidels.org/library/m...negep.html -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Tue, May 23, 2006 - 5:38 PMI don't see why not. Why wouldn't it be? If you can demonstrate that the predicates of a concept of God are self-contradictory, then you have proven that that God at least does not exist. That would be a sound argument.
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Tue, May 23, 2006 - 4:23 PMNo one atheist organization represents more than a few thousand atheists. And given that it's not only atheists who use the word 'atheist", that one organization doesn't get to decide on the only meanings of the word. Dictionaries recognize the more traditional meaning as well (a person who asserts or believes that God does not exist), since that's how many people use the term, whether you like it or not. -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Tue, May 23, 2006 - 4:36 PMLOL, Anthony you're still stuck on that argument? You lost that debate a long time ago. Get over it. Make the necessary adjustments & corrections please.
The conclusion from the link jon shared above states -
Conclusion:
A sound argument for the nonexistence of a god is possible, if the concept of "God" in question is factually meaningful. I think this conclusion is one which even many theists should be willing to accept. After all, the mere possibility of a sound argument for the nonexistence of a god is logically compatible with theism; what theism requires is that there actually are no sound arguments for the nonexistence of God.
www.infidels.org/library/m...negep.html -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Tue, May 23, 2006 - 5:36 PM"You lost that debate a long time ago."
You apparently believe that Chopper, but what you don't seem to understand is that simply declaring victory in an argument doesn't make you the winner.
I almost wrote "debate" rather than "argument", but I backtracked when I immediately realized that you don't debate. You just tend to repeat you claims verbatim and just ignore counterarguments.
And I have no idea what you intended to demonstrate by cutting and pasting that Jeffery Jay Lowder quotation at the end of your post. -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Tue, May 23, 2006 - 7:42 PMI basically know now that it's best to ignore you now Anthony. You still can't get the proper defintions for agnostic or atheist correct nor do you understand the principle of burden of proof nor the principle of proving a negative. I see no reason to waste any time on you whatsoever. -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Tue, May 23, 2006 - 8:11 PMAnd yet, you STILL KEEP TALKING TO HIM.
Based on my own experiences with you, Chops, and by observing others', I have concluded that you're nothing more and nothing less than an attention whore. -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Tue, May 23, 2006 - 8:22 PMYou are no more & no less than Anthony here. I've seen your conclusions before too & again, I'm not impressed. -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 1:02 AMI never intended to impress you.
I'm not so low as to need or even seek your approval or adoration, or anyone's for that matter. I don't need others' reassurance to be content.
And you said you were done addressing ME in another tribe on this very same topic as well. So quickly you break your promises so long as you can get in the last word. And here I was thinking I was free of your mindless drivel. -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 6:33 AM& yet my, 'mindless drivel' is backed up & supported with the facts. Unlike yours or Anthony's particular inaccuracies. I proved you wrong too in the other thread so, why you would come here & continue your unsupported load of B.S. is absurd. Plus, if I am offering 'mindless drivel' then why are you here to continue with it? -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 11:09 AM>>Unlike yours or Anthony's particular inaccuracies.<<
Since I don't toot my own horn, I'll use some quotes from Anthony that are QUITE factual AND accurate:
"No one atheist organization represents more than a few thousand atheists. And given that it's not only atheists who use the word 'atheist", that one organization doesn't get to decide on the only meanings of the word. Dictionaries recognize the more traditional meaning as well (a person who asserts or believes that God does not exist), since that's how many people use the term, whether you like it or not."
Check for yourself, Chopper. Every religion (or group of people with a particular religious view, i.e. atheists and agnostics, which are not actually religions but assert particular views regarding religious ideas) has members that disagree on different matters with other members. Even within the most selectively specified Christian sects be that it has 10 members or 10,000 members worldwide, there will still be disagreements on matters of specifics about their views regarding their religion.
"You apparently believe that Chopper, but what you don't seem to understand is that simply declaring victory in an argument doesn't make you the winner."
You can call yourself a vegetarian all you want if you wanted to, but if you still eat meat, even if its only on occasion, you just aren’t a vegetarian no matter what you say.
Sometimes, Chopper, the facts are just a little too obvious to require name-dropping and cutting and pasting.
>>I proved you wrong too in the other thread so, why you would come here & continue your unsupported load of B.S. is absurd.<<
Again, Chopper, declaring yourself the winner does not make you one. Besides, even if you win the Special Olympics, you’re still a retard.
(I mean no offense to disabled people – consider that comment similar to something Carlos Mencia might say.) :)
>>Plus, if I am offering 'mindless drivel' then why are you here to continue with it?<<
I’m not here specifically to continue addressing / responding to your mindless drivel. Primarily I am here to be a part of the rest of the tribe. What I don’t understand is what YOU are doing in an AGNOSITC tribe if you so vehemently deny that you are at all agnostic. I am in an agnostic tribe despite my being Wiccan, because I take an agnostic approach to my religion. I do not assert it in the sense that I would believe it to be the only truth, or even the truth, since I acknowledge the fact that I really can’t know for sure. While I do have faith that I am accurate in my beliefs, I dot cling desperately the unreasonable assumption that I KNOW I am right, and I am open and comfortable with questioning my own faith from an agnostic viewpoint.
If you’re asking why I’m bothering to contribute to this particular thread, than that’s a different case entirely. Actually, I find you incredibly amusing. There are times that I've seriously pondered the possibility that you stir up these ridiculous arguments as an intentional comic relief, but you truly appear to get genuinely steamed when people are smart enough not to fall for your crap. I suppose I'll never really know... -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 11:38 AMBoth you & Anthony have lost this debate. Why would I waste anymore time on either of you?
C'mon Geesh
Just be a good sport & make the necessary adjustments & corrections -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 11:39 AMChopper. Master debater in his own mind
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 11:43 AMBy the way, calling something a "debate" implies that both parties are responding to each other's arguments, which Chopper simply doesn't do. He just repeats himself and ignores counter arguments. Hence, if there ever was a debate on these subjects, Chopper lost it by default for simply failing to debate.
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 11:40 AM"even if you win the Special Olympics, you’re still a retard."
ROFLMAO!!! -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 11:47 AMBoth Anthony & Pinky are just sore loosers here. Folks that are more interested in accuracy than just simply being 'right' would at some point make the necessary adjustments & corrections. Not these 2.
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 11:59 AMYou know, Chopper, you haven't made any necessary adjustments and corrections yourself. You're obviously more concerned with stroking your own ego than being accurate. Hell, you don't even have it in yourself to paraphrase.
Every argument you've used is someone else's that you've copy-pasted from somewhere else. How does one win an argument without an argument of their own? -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 12:00 PMBy the way, it doesn't appear anyone's really listening to you except for Anthony and myself...who exactly were you addressing in your last post? -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 12:38 PMPinky "You know, Chopper, you haven't made any necessary adjustments and corrections yourself."
- Wrong again. I used to be Christian for about 20 years. Yes, I've made the necessary adjustments & corrections & will continue the integrity to do so.
I know that you & Anthony would like to believe that I'm just making this stuff up but I'm not. A little research on the part of the 2 of you would really be helpful.
I mean, enjoy this article, It comes from a former Preacher of 20 years for gods' sakes -
"Cosmological Kalamity" - www.ffrf.org/about/bybarker/kalam.php -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 12:46 PMA little research on your part wouldn't hurt either.
I don't give a shit if you were Buddhist for 20 years. You are declaring absolute definitions of two terms that are used in a wide variety of ways based on the thoughts and feelings of a few select people and perhaps an organized atheist group or two. You need to make the necessary adjustments and corrections to include the other definitions used worldwide in common society from atheists to agnostics and to theists alike. You have thus far shown no integrity for the consideration of anyone else's opinions, thoughts, theories, philosophies, facts or counter-arguments.
If stupidity hurt, you would have well earned a Darwin Award by now.
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 12:53 PM"- Wrong again. I used to be Christian for about 20 years. Yes, I've made the necessary adjustments & corrections & will continue the integrity to do so. "
No you haven't. You just repeat yourself and ignore counterarguments. Obviously you have no interest in making "the necessary adjustments & corrections" or having any kind of dialogue with people. You're just here to post your cut and paste atheist tracts and are not equipped to deal with counterarguments.
Someone who refuses to acknowledge counterarguments and refuses to answer questions addressed to them when they make their claims and just repeats himself has no intellectual integrity.
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 12:50 PMChopper has no interest in acuracy or rational thinking. He ignores counterarguments because he doesn't have the evidence or intellectual skills to counter the arguments. Plus he only repeats his scripts like an atheist street preacher. Notice that his posts in different threads in different tribes asre identical, no matter how anyone responds. He's not prepared to have actual dialogues with people. That would require something of a rational mind. -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 12:54 PMPinky has lost this debate in the cross roads of religion tribe here - religiouscrossroads.tribe.net/thr...eee6
& Anthony makes a fool of himself in the politics tribe here - uspolitics.tribe.net/thread/...f3f4b952
Please be a good sport & make those necessary adjustments & corrections. You are clearly regurgitating the same talking points here again that you used in the other threads. What in the world makes you think that they will work here now?
GEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSHHHHH -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 1:14 PMChopper, in both those links you repeatedly posted the same copy-paste crap you put here and likely anywhere else you also have a "Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority" thread. In both those links, every single time you copy-pasted all those repeat posts, you had them challenged, and your response was to repost them again. Redistributing the same information when that information is challenged works no better for you than it does for the theists of whom you so vehemently despise.
Be a good sport and STFU. Funny that you should label my paraphrasing as "regurgitating the same talking points," while your own arguments have remained about 80% the exact same copy-pasted material consistently throughout every "Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority" thread, but instead you label THAT as your victories. Your arguments didn't work the first time, so why do you think they'll work the hundredth time? -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 3:22 PM"Your arguments didn't work the first time, so why do you think they'll work the hundredth time?"
Because frankly he's delusional. I mean that literally and not metaphorically, having observed his irrational behavior in these threads he creates. As I mentioned in another tribe, he's like a street preacher who has a script he follows every time, but is not equipped to deal with challenges. And like a street preacher he obsesses with his (anti)religious message and uses these tribes as fora for his obsessions, and people who respond are just annoyances to him that he ignores. These are just soap boxes for him to obsessively ramble.
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 3:11 PMYou're the fool Chopper, and an intellectually dishonest one given your habit of dodging arguments and questions you don't know how to answer. You never could have won any debate since you consistently dodged any effort to debate. Someone who doesn't even show up to the game loses by default, and you lost because of your dodging every counterargument to your ludicrous claims.
Not to mention the fact that you were repeatedly demonstrated to be engaging is self-contradictory arguments, an inconvenient fact that you never addressed, like claiming that agnostics contradict themselves even though they don't claim to know anything that could be self-contradictory.
Or your laughable, self-contradictory argument that there can be no evidence for the nonexistence of God at the same time you claim that the absence of evidence for God IS evidence against God, thus putting yourself in the position of simultaneously asserting that there is evidence against God's existence at the same time as you arguing that there CAN'T be evidence against God's existence.
Or the self-contradictory argument that if we can't know anything about the concept of God, then God can't exist. But if we can deduce that God can't exist, then obviously we know something about God, meaning the conclusion of your argument contradicts its very premise.
Or your dishonest claim that no atheists deny the existence of God. I listed dozens of sites where atheists explicitly asserted that there is no God, and you ignored that as well.
Or your correct assertion that the maker of a claim had the burden to prove that claim, but then you contradict yourself by denying that atheists who make the claim that God does not exist do not have any burden of proof.
Or your dodging of every expert I listed in the Politics tribe, including scientists, statisticians and logicians, who point out that your claim that absence of evidence is evidence of absence is a fallacy, or your dodging of every argument demonstrating how ludicrous your claim is.
Or the demonstration that your etymological argument for what "atheist" means falls apart, another point you completely dodged.
And on and on.
You lost this argument a long time ago Chopper. That you don't realize it is just more testimony to your lack of reasoning skills and disconnect from reality.
Keep patting yourself on the back as much as you'd like, but no amount of patting can resusitate your stillborn efforts at arguing your case. -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 6:32 PM>>I listed dozens of sites where atheists explicitly asserted that there is no God, and you ignored that as well.<<
Wow. Anthony, you actually bothered to take time out of your day to compile a list via internet of something contradicting something that Chopper said? No offense, but what a horrible waste of precious time and grey cells!
Of course, I’m sure you realize that now. You’ve likely suffered enough.
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 11:32 PMYou know, I honestly think he's convinced me. Atheists really ARE the most discriminated minority.
Even Chopper, a self-proclaimed atheist himself, discriminates against atheists! By refusing to acknowledge the definitions of atheist that other atheists use to describe themselves simply because they differ from the definition Chopper uses to define his own personal atheism, he consequently refuses to acknowledge those other atheists as actual atheists, and thus discriminate against them in that way. This is just like how many Catholics refuse to acknowledge Mormons as Christians, even though they're both Christian sects.
What a bum rap. When members of your own minority group discriminate against you, you know you've got it bad! -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Wed, May 24, 2006 - 11:49 PMMaybe Chopper is an aatheist (two "a"s). He denies the existence of atheists who deny the existence of God. -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Thu, May 25, 2006 - 8:54 AMThere we go. -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Thu, May 25, 2006 - 12:00 PM"Notice that his posts in different threads in different tribes asre identical"
- yep, LOL it's called consistency. One remains consistent when they have integrity towards accuracy & intellectual honesty. You 2 should learn about it sometime ahh.
Anthony "No one atheist organization represents more than a few thousand atheists."
* A little factoid:
Freethinkers all together, out number any one particular religious denomination!
Both of you are clearly sore loosers. Simply learn from your mistakes. Make the necessary adjustments & corrections & things will get better. -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Thu, May 25, 2006 - 12:34 PM<"* A little factoid: Freethinkers all together, out number any one particular religious denomination!">
What is the context of this "factoid" and what is your source?
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Thu, May 25, 2006 - 12:57 PM>>Freethinkers all together, out number any one particular religious denomination!<<
This "factoid" is entirely irrelevant, not to mention most likely inaccurate. That would all depend on what you classify as a freethinker. Roman Catholics (a specific Christian denomination) alone have about 1,050,000,000 adherents to it worldwide. Atheists have about 150,000,000. If you also include agnostics, humanists, secularists, etc. that adds about another 770,000,000. Still not there yet, Chopper; where do you find these things?
>>Both of you are clearly sore loosers.<<
We're not sore losers, Chopper. We're not even losers, and we certainly aren't “loosers.” You can't even identify that you're the one who's lost.
I notice you didn't have anything to say about you having convinced me that atheists really are the most discriminated minority. Do you lack the intellectual ingenuity to counter-argue my supporting facts to that conclusion? Have you no handy-dandy quote from some miscellaneous atheist who's alleged all-powerful wisdom overrides it somehow? Is it just that it doesn't fit in to your agenda so you're going to pretend it just isn't there?
I've got a ton more material you've neglected to properly address as well if you'd like to start somewhere else.
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Thu, May 25, 2006 - 1:03 PM"LOL it's called consistency. "
Being the hobgoblin of little minds. No better case where that's true than here.
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Thu, May 25, 2006 - 1:05 PM"Freethinkers all together, out number any one particular religious denomination! "
You weren't quoting someone representing all Freethinkers. Youw ere quoting someone from one particular atheist organization. But thanks for dodging another point. Yes, you are consistent.
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Thu, May 25, 2006 - 2:18 PM<"One remains consistent when they have integrity towards accuracy & intellectual honesty.">
I disagree. Consistency may be a sign not of integrity, but of rigid dogmatic thought patterns. Often accuracy and honesty require chaning one's mind in response to new information. When we fail to adjust our models in response to new data, we have for all intents and purposes stopped thinking. Herein lies the robotic core of fundamentalism, whether it's expressed as fundamentalist Christianity, fundamentalist Marxism, fundamentalist atheism, or any other dogmatic mind virus. -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Thu, May 25, 2006 - 5:50 PMWhat an excellent point, Geoff. I find myself in a nearly constant state of change in my views on things, especially when they are religious in nature, as I learn more information and am presented with theories and such of which I had never previously heard.
Unfortunately, even if Chopper's views are accurate, he has failed to even state them in any way other than the same, boring, copy-paste manner in which I'm sure has driven more people than just myself to skipping over the consistently repeated portions of his posts. It has made me wonder if he even understands the very concepts he presents himself. If he does, surely he would have found some other way to phrase them by now, wouldn’t he have?
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Thu, May 25, 2006 - 7:49 PMWell put Geoff -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Fri, May 26, 2006 - 12:41 PMG "<"One remains consistent when they have integrity towards accuracy & intellectual honesty.">
I disagree. Consistency may be a sign not of integrity, but of rigid dogmatic thought patterns.
- True G but you took that completely out of context here. It was in response to Pinky & Anthonys' comments, obviously. And I think you know that too.
Again Pinky, Anthony, you've lost this debate. Why do you want to continue digging a deeper hole for yourselves?
In 2001 the American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) team of researchers did an American Religious Identification Survey.
They found that while in 1990 about 90% of the adult population identified with one or another religious group, just eleven years later that figure dropped to 81%.
But the most remarkable shift found by the researchers was the growth of a cohort known as "the seculars." They comprise nearly 16% of the population. And overlapping this group is another segment of Americans, those who, when asked about their religious beliefs and affiliations, listed "None - No Religion." This was chosen by 13% of the respondents. The math is simple and straightforward. If these results are applied to the population of the United States, somewhere around 30 million people have "no religion."
That figure exceeds the numbers in most Protestant denominations. The Presbyterians claim about 5.6 million adherents; the Mormons, according to ARIS, have about 2.7 million members in the United State. Seventh-day Adventists, only about 725,000. The Assemblies of God, the denomination to which Attorney General John Ashcroft belongs to, a bit over 1 million. The only religious denominations of cohorts LARGER than "the seculars" are the Roman Catholic Church with about 50 million adherents, and the Baptists, with 33 million. And remember, these figures are likely inflated. They count Baptismal and other enrollments, not regular church attendees. Even the most optimistic of the religious claim that only about 40% of Americans attend church regularly, and there are serious questions about the reliability of that figure.
Plus, it is difficult to account for all Freethinkers since so many don't come out of the foxholes to be counted so there aer probably many more than can be accounted for. -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Fri, May 26, 2006 - 12:45 PMYou're a ridiculous little man Chopper. Do you actually have arguments with people outside of here, because it's clear you don't know how to?
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Fri, May 26, 2006 - 2:39 PMThanks for the reference Chopper. I've been looking at the results and they're very interesting. Self described Atheists, Agnostics, humanists and "seculars," altogether come to less than 1%, which is lower than I've seen in other studies (and thus more of a reason to at least try to get along). But then "no religion" comes to 13.2%. I'm not sure what to make of that. It may have something to do with the design of the study in which people were called upon to write in their own labels rather than checking an appropriate box next to some provided category. Dunno. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Sat, May 27, 2006 - 10:31 AMGive this a good going over Geoff & let me know what you think.
I will add this pie chart to the photo section
"Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 16% - 1.1 billion" -
www.adherents.com/Religions...rents.html
ARIS Study information -
www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Sat, September 9, 2006 - 10:01 AM -
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Re: Study: Atheists Most Discriminated Minority
Fri, May 11, 2007 - 6:40 PM"OKLAHOMA OUTRAGE," DISCRIMINATION AGAINST ATHEISTS TOPIC OF ABC PROGRAM
The Black Sheep of Hardesty
"The Smalkowski family is suing Hardesty, Okla., for violating the separation of church and state. The family claims it has been discriminated against for being atheists, and that the religious town has tried to drive them out for holding different beliefs."
Watch the full story on "Seeing and Believing: the Power of Faith" on a special two-hour "20/20" Friday at 9 p.m. EDT.
abcnews.go.com/2020/story
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